But that's just, like, my opinion, man

thegirlwhowrites642

I totally understand your point of view because I’m an older sister too, and there would have been no way in hell I would have missed something like this about my younger sibling. Though I have to say, Percy at least understands there’s something wrong and we also know Ginny at eleven is a very practised liar that doesn’t like to ask for help and doesn’t have much faith in her family being in her corner (the Quidditch training in secret is such a perfect back story for the diary).

I think when the Weasley brothers really fail is after Ginny’s first year.

A lot of people seem to believe that the worst things Ron did were not believing Harry in GoF or the Horcrux thing but I completely disagree. Those things are frankly very minor all considered and influenced by a lot of circumstantial reasons. The one thing that really always kind of stuck with me that was really shitty of Ron was when he shoves away Ginny at the start of PoA. Your sister has been possessed for a whole year by a dark lord fundamentally because she grew up very sheltered and all her brothers decided to ignore her while an evil dark object amplified all her insecurities and the year after you decide to behave with her in the same exact way?

And I get that Ron is jealous of his friendships due to his insecurities but there’s a limit to what is justifiable (he grows out of it at least so kudos for that).

And then after the dementor’s attack, it’s not even Ron who takes care of her while she trembles.

And of course, the fact that Ginny searches for Ron even after he sent her away tells you something about the other brothers (maybe Percy had prefect things to do so he might be excused, but why wasn’t she with the twins?).

But after all, it’s one of the big themes of Ginny’s story: she doesn’t have anyone in her corner but herself.

Ginny starts the story victim of unimaginable horrors because of her loneliness but she becomes someone whose greatest strength is her ability to stand on her own (the girl is a rock) and who takes care of the people forgotten by everybody else. She once was the injured girl on the floor of the Chamber and she becomes the one who takes care of the injured girl on the grounds (soon after her brother died I might add).

[note: it’s also a full circle moment for Harry and Ginny because, in the scene in DH, Harry is projecting on the injured girl]

austenpoppy

I'd have to respectfully disagree with you, as someone who thinks our readings of the books are quite close and always enjoy reading your analysis.

First, I think that the Weasley brothers did notice that there was something amiss with Ginny, though they didn't have the tools to deal with the situation. I wrote an analysis (or rather compiled excerpts from the books here : https://austenpoppy.tumblr.com/post/688403214565081088/embed).

But to sum up the point I made in that analysis, I'd say that the fact they were all mentioned trying to get Ginny to be less sad at one point or another shows that they were aware of what state she was in : for instance, Ron tried to reassure her after Mrs Norris's disappearance, the Twins disguised themselves and jumped at her to try to cheer her up after Colin was discovered, and Percy, who did the most because that year he was the oldest, kept telling her she was not herself.

Now regarding PoA, I'm unsure why you implied that Ron dismissed Ginny because he was supposedly protective of his friendships. I don't think Ron's shown much of that trait in the books : for example, he let Ginny hang out with the trio in the beginning of book 4, in book 5, or in book 6.

Actually, we know why Ron dismissed Ginny in that train : that's because Harry told Ron and Hermione he wanted to speak with them in private. So Ron had to tell Ginny to go elsewhere.

Now, you can argue he could've done it differently. But would telling her that Harry - of all people - needed to talk to Ron and Hermione in private have really been better ? Wouldn't that have made her feel more excluded ? Wouldn't that have risked making her feel slightly paranoid, wouldn't that have risked making her think that Harry believed her to be weird ?

And wouldn't that have risked making her feel like she was sick and/or patronised, either ? The Weasley siblings (the Weasleys in general) don't talk to each other in a polite, respectful and sensitive manner. They don't take kid gloves with one another. If Ron had been more polite, Ginny would have been reminded that now she was different because of what had happened.

I'd argue that Ron, in that train before his third year, treated Ginny like nothing was out of the ordinary, as if they were back to normal, and I'd say this can also be good for someone who's been through terrible things. Ginny ended up feeling annoyed, like any sibling would feel in that scenario, but no emphasis was made on her exclusion from the group of friends, and no emphasis was made on what had happened to her either (which a change of tone in Ron's usual manner would have highlighted).

Are we also going to berate Ron for not focusing on his sister when his best friend had just passed out ? Yes, sure, he could have made a signal to Hermione to stay with Harry while he took care of his sister, but I feel like that's asking a lot from a 13-year old. It's normal to be very worried about someone who fainted in front of you (and had a simili-seizure).

Ultimately I wouldn't say Ginny only had herself to rely on : she had an army of brothers who would kill for her if needed, and who were attentive to her. However, she experienced a very traumatic event that none of her brothers could relate to (a weird and toxic connection with Voldemort), which is a sort of isolation that's not easy to overcome - but that Harry also experienced, as you said yourself in one of your analysis.

And as a side note, while I don't count Ron's Horcruxe episode as a mistake at all, and do not think "not believing Harry right away" in fourth year was in itself a mistake either (not sitting with Harry in Potions class or not rekindling the dialogue with him are behaviours that I'd rather begrudge Ron for regarding that particular incident), I'd say Ron imitating Hermione in sixth year would qualify as his biggest mistake.

I know I'm argumentative and tend to speak up more when I disagree (hence why my first post here since I took time off to write my dissertation project is a debate opening xD), but I hope you'll see this post as a simple disagreement from someone who really likes what you write.

vivithefolle

Honestly, my opinion of Ron’s biggest mistake isn’t him imitating Hermione (she laughed at him first; it’s described as “Ron retaliated”, so Ron wasn’t the initiator there. If Hermione can’t handle retaliation she shouldn’t start shit).

His biggest mistake is probably dating Lavender, because it didn’t just hurt Hermione, it hurt Lavender too, and it hurt Ron as well. Even if Ginny *did* push his buttons, Ron didn’t have to go and involve Lavender in the whole mess.

But that’s HBP: it’s the Book Of Why Are You Making This A Stupid Teenage Romcom When The Last Book Told Us There’d Be A War. Or the Book Of Everyone Shits On Ron Because He Can’t Be Better Than The Other Mary Sues.

Anyway. Yeah. Ron is a good brother who tries his best, it’s not his fault his author is a dick.

who was always Ginnys friend and whose thing was always “be yourself dont care”. Hermione is the one who knows Ginny is Harry type and can read Harry like a book, despite not clicking with him at all when it comes to things he and Ginny cared about, in the same book, but not Luna, who Harry liked and related to since book 5. (2)

Hermione is the one who tells Harry Ron was jealous of him – gee thanks Hermione, wouldn’t be be less insecure if his supposed love interest cared about things he cared about instead of whatever the hell you were doing in book 3 and 4. Luna is supposed to be the openminded, emotionally free and caring, people reading, deep quoting, knowledge applying Ravenclaw, but only in theory. , but thanks to being there late AND Hermione, she was reduced to an outcast for the sake of ir. (4)

She has no character development either, nothing but a weirdo conspiracy theorist that didn’t even get to have a “rival” arc with Hermione, to develop either of them from being total antagonistic opposites, and a prop in book 7 for when Harry needs her. Hermione remains a closeminded asshole with NO true friends but two, but now somehow always right, and Luna…nothing that shows a good Ravenclaw, despite what movie fans tells themselves.

(7) Hermione is badly written bc she’s DAMAGING to all characters that comes close to her, and the more I reread I realize why the fandom was so divided and toxic around her. Harry, Ron, Ginny, Luna, Rowling ruined them all with the self insert.

Let’s be fair and remember that Luna came in last.

She was in the prime spot to be “the new character that shows everyone what they’ve been missing all along” and as such would be in a prime spot to earn the fan’s ire, but she wasn’t.

I don’t find it awful that Luna wasn’t given much to do; she was the newcomer. She appeared in Order of the Phoenix; it’s a testament to how cool she is as a character that she sticks to people’s minds so much to the point that some chucklefucks will cry about Ginny “coming out of nowhere” only to ship Harry with Luna, who actually did come out of nowhere as far as the books before OOTP were concerned.

The biggest tragedy of all this is… even if she’s coming in five books later, Luna still has more backstory and substance to her character than Hermione ever gets in SEVEN books.

Seven books we have of Hermione solving problems for Harry and being basically a crutch for exposition and plot devices, and we still have no idea who she is outside of “being useful to Harry” or “the girl waiting for Ron to grow up, isn’t he such a bother taking so long”.

Luna could, might have been more. It’s sad that she’s such a missed opportunity in the end - and it’s sad that she’s the only non-Gryffindor of the team.

But she’s also the last introduced, and as such Hermione should take priority over her when it comes to character development and all that - Hermione is an important secondary character, like Ron is. A problem with other characters’ relationships in HP though is that no progress can be made unless Harry is there to observe it. Harry Potter has no object permanence, thanks for coming to my TED talk.

Oh, I’d written a Quora answer about that! Let me get it-

Keep reading

Oh my god if the Harry Potter fandom competed in the Projection Olympics, they’d be second place, right behind the Republicans.

Which is NOT a compliment.

Hermione can be controlling and could absolutely turn into a control freak, depending on the circumstances of course. She could become a control freak just like she could mellow out, or realize she has a problem and learn to curb those tendencies.

Ron is pretty chill outside of that one time in HBP in which it’s ridiculous but HBP is ridiculous as a whole because Rowling is an asshole to Ron in it.

Oh, I knew I’d seen that meta somewhere, and turns out it’s of course from Windy’s blog: https://www.tumblr.com/windschildfanfictionwriter/633648182514040832/tells-one-thing-shows-another

it made me wonder that the line spoken by the Horcrux about him being least loved definitely has some possible truth to it

The one I thing I like to say about the Horcrux thing is that it functions on both levels…

As in, “yes Molly treats Ron worse out of her kids. Yes Hermione doesn’t put in much effort to show Ron she likes him which leads to him thinking she prefers Harry”.

But also…

Least loved by his mother… by his author… who preferred her girl, her self-insert. Least loved by the girl… the woman who prefers Harry, and so will blame Ron for everything, instead of blaming them both for an argument in which Ron was for the most part right.

(2). I can forgive her “momentary smarts” moments because I can see how actually being with friends emboldened her. I loved Ron for yelling at her for her slowness – as of book 2 I can see her taking that to heart and try not to be robotic. Before book 3, all her “independent rule breaking” was with them, to help them and when she was THERE with them.

(3) When she set Snape on fire or did the potions, she WAS alone yes, but Ron was watching her, and the Potion thing has logical development bc she had went into the Restricted Section for Harry in Book 1, and most important thing is she failed or was petrified. NOTHING like that anymore since book 3 because even Rowling knew those things Hermione did was too big for anyone.

On “Hermione 1” and “Hermione 2”

I think in the end it really just comes down to Rowling using Hermione as a “solve everything” trump card.

She said it herself, that Hermione explaining stuff makes sense because you just assume she’s read it in a book. Ok, yeah…

But doesn’t it also make sense for Ron to know things because he’s wizard-raised and so would know stuff without need for books?

I mean look how perfectly it happened in COS!

Then Ron pushed Harry into an armchair and said, “You’re a Parselmouth. Why didn’t you tell us?”
[…]
“So?” said Harry. “I bet loads of people here can do it.”
“Oh, no they can’t,” said Ron. “It’s not a very common gift. Harry, this is bad.”
“What’s bad?” said Harry, starting to feel quite angry. “What’s wrong with everyone? Listen, if I hadn’t told that snake not to attack Justin —”
“Oh, that’s what you said to it?”
“What d’you mean? You were there — you heard me —”
“I heard you speaking Parseltongue,” said Ron. “Snake language. You could have been saying anything — no wonder Justin panicked, you sounded like you were egging the snake on or something — it was creepy, you know —”
Harry gaped at him.
“I spoke a different language? But — I didn’t realize — how can I speak a language without knowing I can speak it?”
Ron shook his head. Both he and Hermione were looking as though someone had died. Harry couldn’t see what was so terrible. - Chamber of Secrets

Ok, so why Hermione would look so stricken I dunno, maybe anxious, but I’ll give it a pass because Harry Don’t Know Feelings let’s go with that.
So Ron somewhat explains “this is bad” (but he does describe Parseltongue as “a gift”, so, yknow, he wouldn’t cut off someone’s tongue if they spoke Parseltongue, I see you there you people who think Slytherins are “oppressed”), because in popular opinion this is bad. He explains to Harry why that looked bad, why people reacted the way they did, and what is Parseltongue.

“It matters,” said Hermione, speaking at last in a hushed voice, “because being able to talk to snakes was what Salazar Slytherin was famous for. That’s why the symbol of Slytherin House is a serpent.”
Harry’s mouth fell open.
“Exactly,” said Ron. “And now the whole school’s going to think you’re his great-great-greatgreat-grandson or something —”
“But I’m not,” said Harry, with a panic he couldn’t quite explain.
“You’ll find that hard to prove,” said Hermione. “He lived about a thousand years ago; for all we know, you could be.” - Chamber of Secrets

And all those are credible informations to garner out of a textbook! Especially from Hogwarts, A History which would probably give a bit of detail about the founders and their Houses.

And then compare and contrast with Deathly Hallows…

‘And as for this book,’ said Hermione, ‘The Tales of Beedle the Bard… I’ve never even heard of them!’
‘You’ve never heard of The Tales of Beedle the Bard?’ said Ron incredulously. ‘You’re kidding, right?’
‘No, I’m not!’ said Hermione in surprise. ‘Do you know them, then?’ ‘Well, of course I do!’
Harry looked up, diverted. The circumstance of Ron having read a book that Hermione had not was unprecedented. Ron, however, looked bemused by their surprise. - Deathly Hallows

Ho ho ho ho ho ha ha ha ha ho ho Ron read a book??? Shock! Bewilderment! Unprecedent!! Imagine Ron being literate!! Ho ho ho ho ho!!!

… yeah, but…

‘A book?’ said Harry, as he took the rectangular parcel. ‘Bit of a departure from tradition, isn’t it?’
‘This isn’t your average book,’ said Ron. ‘It’s pure gold: Twelve Fail-Safe Ways to Charm Witches. […]’ - Deathly Hallows

Hm. I wonder if Hermione has read that book? Who am I kidding, of course she hasn’t, otherwise she’d have FUCKING REALIZED SHE NEEDED TO BE MORE PROACTIVE IN PURSUING RON INSTEAD OF PLAYING TSUNDERE AND LAUNCHING CANARIES AT HIM.

Ahem, heh, yeah. That’s, the state of the writing in Deathly Hallows. Years of being told how awesome Hermione is for reading books and regurgitating what she read (aka a thing tons of kids do in their youth because kids are curious little buggers and love sharing their discoveries with others) really took their toll.

Any Ron-appreciation is fine by me!

(Very sorry for the late reply, been busy with online schooling…)

I think it’s both factors -

Ron tends to be quite blunt in saying his opinions. It’s not the same thing as “brutal honesty” (basically code for “giving unsollicited advice in the cruellest manner possible”), it’s more like… saying the thing without much thought for form. Very autistic thing to do.

“Did you see anyone near here that night?” said Harry.
“I wasn’t paying attention,” said Myrtle dramatically. “Peeves upset me so much I came in here and tried to kill myself. Then, of course, I remembered that I’m — that I’m —”
“Already dead,” said Ron helpfully. - Chamber of Secrets

(the “helpfully” gets me everytime azgfduzodz)

And, there is as you said, the fact that Ron copes by joking and projecting an aura of “haha I don’t care this doesn’t affect me” to protect himself, which reaches its limits once he can’t pretend anymore and must confront the problem head-on. When confronted with the problem without any escape routes, Ron… resorts to getting angry, because that’s what the twins have taught him by targeting him for pranks all his life: puff yourself up, make yourself threatening and growl so the predator doesn’t bother you.

It’s, unfortunately, how a lot of little boys were (and still are!) raised, because it’s seen as a sign of weakness (because it’s a feminine thing, apparently) to cry or ask for help. This reinforces the belief that men are “tougher”, “less emotional”… and ultimately, “brutish and insensitive”.

People should really just stop taking everything Hermione says as face value. She’s knowledgeable and serves to give exposition, yes, but she’s not all-seeing and all-knowing either - especially not when it comes to people’s feelings. She got it right with Cho once? Cool! Once, and she could personally relate to the situation (her with Ron/Viktor VS Cho with Harry/Cedric).